It was around the same time that she made her debut performance on the silver screen in the Steven Spielberg-directed version of the Alice Walker novel, The Color Purple. She earned an Oscar nomination for her trouble. Since then, she's watched her daytime talk show became the #1-rated talk show in the country, and she's seen authors that she's championed (both on her show and with her now famous Book Club), vault to the top of the New York Times Best Seller List. She's also started her own production company, Harpo Productions, which owns and produces her talk show and has produced several critically acclaimed tv movies.

The latest in her long list of labors of love is her role as producer and star of the film adaptation of Toni Morrison's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, "Beloved". In it she plays Sethe, a woman living outside of Cincinnati during the post-Civil War Reconstruction, literally haunted by the horrors of her past.

The film, which was directed by Oscar-winning director Jonathan Demme (Silence of the Lambs, Philadelphia), takes Morrison's abstract and difficult novel and brings its frightening visions to the screen with stark and stunning honesty. The always down-to-earth Winfrey took some time out recently to talk to us about the long struggle she went through to make Beloved, if it was worth it, what she got out of it, and why complete strangers still feel like it's okay to interrupt her during dinner to shoot the breeze.

What was the hardest part of making the film?

The hardest part was getting the movie made. Not listening to everyone who told me for 8 years that it couldn't be done. And being able to hold on to my own vision that, "Yeah, maybe my gut was right the first time I read it." Lots of people told me it couldn't be done and after a while I almost started to believe them. I thought, "Well, if this many people tell you it can't be done, maybe it can't."

How do you think the movie would've been different without having to go through that struggle?

Oh, it would've been much different. It's a better movie now because I did wait. First of all, the first script that we had, the directors weren't responding to because it was so long. And too many flashbacks. That really was a challenge. How do you stay in present-day and tell the story that happened back then. And I think the choices that Jonathan eventually made are really amazing. Because even when Sethe is telling the story of the "Taking of the Milk," the flashes come on the screen the way they come in your head. She never goes there because she's still very closed to herself. So she never lets herself go to that place of fully giving over to the story. When she's more readily able to explain it, like in the "28 Days of Freedom" story, when the memories aren't so painful, when she's able to trust that Paul D will believe her, she's telling that story the way she tells it, because she believes in Paul D.

Did you realize when you first wanted to make "Beloved" into a movie that it would be such an arduous task?

I was so darn naive when I started this process. I did not own my own company. I did not own myself. I was a talent-for -hire at WLS television. I was just a talent-for-hire, but I had sense enough to know that this was a good book and that I should get the rights to this book and hold on to it for as long as it took. I didn't know it would take ten years, but when I finally did go to Disney with a movie deal, that was the first thing I told them that I wanted to do was this movie. I said this will be my "Schindler's List." It is my "Schindler's List."

Did you know Toni Morrison at the time that you bought the rights to "Beloved"?

No.

Why do you think she was willing to sell the rights to you then?

I guess because I paid her enough money. And she trusted me. I had just been syndicated so I had some money, but I had said to my lawyers, because she hadn't won the Pulitzer Prize yet--otherwise it would've been more money--and I said, whatever she asks, that's what I'm gonna pay. I'm not going into negotiations with her.

What did you do differently to try to capture the power of the story?

What we did which I thought was really smart, is--y'know most films are shot out of sequence--Jonathan felt, and I did too, that this material was so powerful, so strong that you needed to build on it. What happened yesterday influenced what happened the next day. So we tried to keep it in sequence so you were following along with the story. So really what you see--with the exception of some things that had to be, whenever special effects and mechanics were involved we'd have to go out of sequence--other than that we shot everything in order. So that you build on your devastation.

Between this and The Color Purple and some of your TV work, you've done a lot of work about slavery and the post-slavery years. Do you feel a special connection to the time period, like you've been there?

I now know I have been there. The creation of Sethe took me there. I feel connected because we are all connected to our past. You are where you are right now because of everything in the life that you know, that you can cognitively remember. This very moment is based on choices that you've made up until this very moment, to be sitting in this chair right now. And so it is with everything that's happened in the past. Everything your grandmother did made this life possible, everything her mother and father did made her life possible and so we're all connected.

The problem is most people forget the connection. Everyone of us has been paid for, regardless of your heritage--however your parents, grandparents, forefathers immigrated here, whatever the size of the boat was or whatever continent they came from, their lives made this life possible. I came out of this experience knowing that the fact that you've been bought and paid for--there is a price that you now owe.

And the problem with the young generation is that they've forgotten it. They've forgotten the price. They think they just got here. They think they just got here and everything that's happenening is because of them. There's no connection or realization that somebody else has laid down their life, literally, for you. Regardless of whether it was a civil rights struggle or just trying to get a home. Just trying to make ends meet. Just trying to get shoes on your feet. Everybody's been paid for and your ability to forget that disconnects you from who you are. Because I came out of the Sethe experience understanding this is who I am! Not what was done, not physical accomplishments. It's not about who built the highest building or created the best invention, which is always emphasized in Black History Month--all wrong as far as I'm concerned!

It's about who had the courage to stand and be defined by a knowledge--an inner knowledge--that my life is better than what you say it can be. And if you can come from that--with nothing, no shoes, no home, no voice: "I'm gonna run North; "Which way is that?" "I'm gonna cross the Ohio River; I don't know how but I believe I can." You come from that and now you live in this world where you've got every darn thing that anybody in your past could ever imagine, you live beyond their wildest dreams, and for you to say you can't? Based upon what? It's just your loss of your own memory of yourself.

When people read a book they're obviously going to have their own interpretations of a story but when you make a movie you have to make certain choices, and decisions and interpretations. Was that hard for you, especially for a book like "Beloved" that could have so many interpretations and readings?

It's hard for me to give up everything. I just wanted it to be an eighteen hour mini-series. Let's just keep on watching this movie. All the scenes that are gone from the book are scenes that I wanted for other people. And Jonathan was right in that, you just need to get this story told. As it was, I think the first time that I saw it, it was about three hours and twelve minutes. And I'm like, "Well, I don't know what you're gonna cut." And now they've cut 37 minutes out of the original cut. That was hard.

But I think this, for everyone who has not read the book, this movie makes the book a real pleasure. Because all the people who say, "God, don't you find Toni Morrison difficult?"...And I called up Toni and told her what everyone was saying. "They all say you're difficult." And she says, "People aren't accustomed to paying attention." Which is true. You want to read and skip a paragraph. And she said, "I don't write so you can skip a paragraph. I sit and I labor and I work on a sentence, sometimes reconstruct one sentence, change a word seven times just so it hits your brain and you can digest it and it flows all down inside of you and you absorb it. And you're supposed to skip that? No. That, my dear, is called reading."

There's a common maternal thread through all your characters...

First of all, let me address the `mammy' thing. We are all here because somebody was maternal. I think that's about the best thing that we have going for ourselves. That somebody cared about us enough to nurture us. And I'd play a glamour puss if the glamour puss has some meaning. I think there are enough people who are willing to do the Booty Calls of the world, so you don't need me to do that. I'm trying to open people up. To create the highest vision for my own life and for people to see themselves differently.

So you don't need me to bring the ante down. You don't need me to show you the lowest common denominator. You can get that yourself and there are lots of other people that are out there who are willing to do work to make money, to be current or whatever. I think if you just see Sethe as a--there's not one stereotypical image in this movie on purpose. There's not a head rag, not a singin' banjo-playin' cotton-picker. There's not one stereotype in this movie on purpose. Because we wanted to show that this was a period of reconstruction where people cared about what they looked like, how they acted.

Do you get something different from acting as opposed to doing the talk show?

Uh-huh. Oh, they're complete opposites actually. Because being on TV everyday is being myself. I get paid lots of money to be myself. How'd that happen? "You go on tv and you just yourself." As long as you comb your hair, you can make it girl. You get to say what you feel, act how you want to act and put your feet up if you want to. Creating a character is the exact opposite, I think, because you have to--I think it's the ultimate in compassion and empathy because you have to give your life over to someone else. You have to live in that space. And for me, unlike some other actors, you better like that person. You better have something you connect with in that person because I believe you take on the energy. I do. The way I act is to open myself up and let that in. That can make you weary. That can make you really weary. So when you're taking it in, it better be something that you are really ready to live with and then find a way to discard it. Sethe was with me for a long, long time. In ways that I did not like.

Do you think you'd have a hard time playing a role where you were unsympathetic to the character?

I don't mind being a villain because even a villain has a heart, so that doesn't bother me. I'm against anything that is gratuitously violent or that is demeaning to women in a way, that continues to perpetuate the image that we deserve to be demeaned. Therefore I've had to turn down scripts over the years. I'm not gonna be carrying a gun shooting anybody. I'm not going to be in a movie where people are being shot which eliminates almost all roles. I just won't do it. I don't believe in it and I believe that the imagery of films is very powerful, more powerful than people give it credit for being. And to say it's a reflection of society is a cop-out. So it's not what I choose to do because I can't justify it in terms of the way I lead my life.

What about violence that is a legitimate part of the story? I mean, there's violence in Beloved. A lot of it. Would you consider doing a movie where the gunfire was realistic and not portrayed in a sensationalistic way?

It would depend. It would really depend on what the script was. It really would because so much of it is kind of gratuitous. I see these movies where you walk in and there are these gun-totin' women and even though she might be glamorous and wear some really nice shoes, and have a really cute outfit on--no, not for me.

How do you think Black America will receive this film?

Don't know. I think real thinking people will look at it for what it is and take it in for what it is. It would be hard to be an African-American and not be deeply affected by it. Some people don't want to go there, can't even look at, don't want to bring up those memories. And that to me is also ridiculous. Because you're carryin' `em anyway, baby. You're carryin' `em with you everyday. If you don't heal the wounds of you're past, you'll bleed into the future. I don't care who you are. And so to say you don't want to look at it because that was then and this is now, is absurd. Because that is who you are. And take the power from it. Be strong as a result of it. Not deny it and say, I wish that it never happened. Because it did! It did! And what does that mean now? It happened! And we all have to acknowledge that it happened and how do we now move forward from that? Yes it did happen! And what are we going to do about it then? It made me stronger, braver, fearless. Going there made me fearless. I'm more proud of myself and my heritage than I ever even imagined. Indestructible. Only I can destroy me! Only I can destroy me.

What sort of an emotional toll did the production take on you?

We were all emotionally devastated by this movie. Achin' in our bones devastated. Couldn't get rid of the pain.


How did Jonathan Demme get involved in the project?

Jonathan was attached because we sent it to so many directors and he was one that responded. And after I sat down and met with him I knew immediately he was the one. He be the one. I had gone through black directors, female directors, foreign directors, and then I decided that I'm being as crazy as everybody else. I should just sit down and find somebody that shares my passion. Don't care what color, what gender, what continent they come from, as long as they share my passion and my vision and are willing to collaborate with me. That's how I came to my senses.

So I sat down with Jonathan and I said to him, "If I don't think I can do Sethe then I won't do it." I said that to every other director and they said, "Aw, right." But Jonathan said, "Okay, okay, alright, we'll give it a try." And I really did feel that if I can't do it then I'll be calling Angela Bassett or somebody.

Was there any point where you said to yourself, "A black director should direct this. A black director is going to understand the experience more?"

Uh-huh.

And was there a process of changing your mind about that?

I thought foreign director first. I thought, "Got to be out of this country with this kind of sensitivity that can layer a film. So it goes straight forward." Then I thought female. Then I thought Black.

And you ended up with a white American male.

But a good one. It's about collaboration and vision. So, everybody, even though they're black, they're tellin' me, "Well I think it's this." And I'm saying, "No, I think it's that." I think it's more than just a ghost story. It's about more than just the mother and the daughter and the ghost. It's a romantic story. So specifically, we just couldn't agree on major things, so what does that tell you? Really from the beginning when we sat down, Jonathan couldn't keep himself still. And even though some directors who said they were on fire to do it, I had to give over the script to them. Nobody believed that I had the insight to produce as well as act at the same time and not be an egomaniac about it.

So yeah, it was the collaboration and the shared vision that made me say he's the one. I totally disagree with that theory that says if you're white you can't do it or if you're black you can. Carl Franklin just did "One True Thing." And for me to say a director can't direct because he's white, then someone else can say, Carl Franklin, what does he know about a white woman with cancer. He's never been there. It's about your knowledge of the human experience and the human heart and your ability to tell a story that makes you capable of directing or not directing.

Were you uncomfortable about doing a nude scene?

I'd seen the shot sheet for the upcoming day shooting. And they had a picture of Sethe lying down on the bed with the corset off. And her breasts are sitting straight up. So I call Jonathan and go over and I say, "You see in that shot where you have Sethe on the bed and her breasts are sticking straight up there in the air when she's on her back? Mine don't do that. See when I lay down, mine do too. Maybe we need to talk about getting a breast person, because I'm telling you, that ain't gonna happen."

Your appeal to a lot of people seems to be that you're so down-to-earth. People feel like they know you. Do people often come up to you and start talking to you like they're you're best friend?

Uh-huh. All the time. I would feel strange if it was any other way. Just walking over here today, I walked from--I live like two blocks down. People just come up to me like, "How you doin' this morning? Listen, I just got a bagel you want some?" All the time, all the time. And pull up a chair and sit down and talk. It's very different from being a--I was once in a restaurant out in Hollywood, I think it was Morton's or something and they're were like other movie stars there, in fact Elizabeth Taylor was at a table. And I could here people going, "Oh, that's Elizabeth Taylor," with this kind of reverence. They come over to me and say, "Did you see Elizabeth Taylor? She right over there." And pull up a chair, which is--I'm so accustomed to it.

Last night, we were upstairs in the bar, and a lady comes over, it's her 40th anniversary and they're going to dinner. "Where you going?" "Is that a good restaurant?" "I think there's a better one." Then someone else comes over and pulls up a chair, and before you know it we've got 12 people sittin' at the table.

Would you rather have that kind of life than the Elizabeth Taylor one?

Yeah. I would. I think it annoys [her longtime boyfriend] Steadman some days. He's like, "Do the people know we're just having a conversation? Can we just have a private conversation." I say to him, "If you want to have a private conversation, let's have it at home. Let's not go out and think and think we're gonna have a private conversation. We were just at home. If you had something to say you should have just said it then." (Pauses) They wanted to have someone walk me across the street today. Get outta here! I walk all over Chicago all the time.

What's the hardest thing about making movies?

Trying to weave the truth. When I first started acting, I knew instinctively you've got to tell the truth but I was hung up on the semantics of the word, "act." Because doesn't act mean pretend? Doesn't pretend mean that you're faking it? So how do you tell the truth at the same time? It's weaving this tapestry of what appears to be the truth on-screen. And doing it with a sense of clarity and purity that let's you see the truth. Letting Sethe up on the screen for me wasn't a lie for me at all. That was a way for me to open myself up and let it through. The hardest thing for me though, is to stay in the truth seven takes later.